Please follow the link below to the gay-dads.org blog to read a conversation between four fathers and how they have stepped up to their parenting challenges.
(I’m Dad 2 in the exchange)
(I’m Dad 2 in the exchange)
Saw the play Fun Home over the weekend during a getaway in L.A. to celebrate a friend’s 50th birthday. I’m often touched in the theatre, but I rarely cry in the theatre.
I cried on Saturday night. Twice.
As the first Broadway musical with a lesbian protagonist, Fun Home balances humor and tragedy to create an emotional roller-coaster of introspection that left me pondering for days.
First, the little boy inside me cried at the acknowledgement that like Alyson, the protagonist, he saw himself in other gay men at a very young age and knew he was like them. I cried that that little boy felt fear rather than wonder and joy. The song, “Ring of Keys” as performed at the 2015 Tony awards is a beautiful rendition of this pivotal moment for gay youth.
My second moment came near the end when Alyson’s Mom reveals the true extent of her pain in her marriage to Alyson’s Dad, Bruce. He is a closeted gay man who has created a life of deception and untruth for those around him. The song “Days and Days” provides a window into the wife’s pain and hopelessness. I cried both in empathy for my ex-wife and in gratitude that I stopped it before it got this bad. I came out and we divorced in time for both of us to have a life.
I’m so happy that I have renewed my season tickets for the traveling Broadway shows in my area to see this touching play again.
I’ve created a new blog and I need your help.
In the last couple of months I’ve come to know at least three individuals in my extended social group of formerly married gay fathers who have experienced close calls with suicide. About 6 months before this, several of us had met to discuss what we could do to help men in our situation.
There are a lot of resources in today’s world for gay teens and young adults. There are coming out stories to read and hotlines to call. That is all fantastic. But a man who has been married to a woman and who carries fatherhood responsibilities lives with an entirely unique weight of responsibility during the whole coming out process. Those of us who have been through it know how lonely, hopeless and yet exciting and freeing it can be.
Without knowing HOW we could help, the suggestion was thrown out that perhaps a website just for gay fathers would help.
So, I created one. Here it is.
But this is just the bare bones of what I hope it becomes. I need your help to provide content. One would think there are a lot of sites like this but there are not. Just google “gay dad” or “gay fathers” and you get discussions about coupled gay men deciding to become parents through adoption, surrogacy, etc. That’s wonderful of course, but that’s not what I’m talking about here.
Men who came out after becoming fathers are different. They and their kids need to know they aren’t alone. They need to know how others have navigated the terrifying waters and how to get help in a crisis. Some of us need to tell our stories. That’s what this site is all about.
If this is you I hope you’ll help me build the site by sending me:
This site is not going to be LDS focused. It will zero in on formerly or currently married gay men who have children of any age. All religions and nationalities are welcome.
Please help me make this a valuable resource by sending content and ideas my way!
OMG I just got a text from my ex-wife that she sent to me and my three girls. Tomorrow was supposed to be the wedding. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, go back and read: Could This Be About YOU? I explained that I was flabbergasted that my kids’ step-sister was marrying a gay young man.
I don’t know either one of them so I felt hopeless and frustrated that my ex hadn’t intervened somehow.
By some miracle the girl called it off the day before the wedding!
Here’s the text. I was included because it’s my weekend with the kids and they were going to have to leave to attend during their time with me. My ex is the first message. Mine is the last, and my girls’ texts in the middle.
If you’re the girl reading this, good for you. That was probably so hard to do. You’ll thank yourself later and time will heal the disappointment and doubt you must be feeling.
If you’re the guy reading this, I’m sure you’re hurting right now but please take some time to get honest with yourself and find men to talk to who have been through what you’re going through. Your life can still be happy and joyful and filled with love and with a future family.
Live on the outside in a manner consistent with how you feel on the inside and peace will come to you.
Mormon apostle Russell Ballard gave a talk in October 2016 General Conference entitled “To Whom Shall We Go?” where he said the following:
If any one of you is faltering in your faith, I ask you the same question that Peter asked: “To whom shall [you] go?” If you choose to become inactive or to leave the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where will you go? What will you do? The decision to “walk no more” with Church members and the Lord’s chosen leaders will have a long-term impact that cannot always be seen right now.
A new website, wherewillyougo.org, has been dedicated to former Mormons submitting their own answers explaining where they’ve gone and how that’s worked out for them. This is my submission:
10 years ago as a gay, newly divorced father of four and former Mormon, where I would go and what I would do was indeed the looming question
A lifetime of seminary, sunday school, priesthood, mission, BYU and church leadership had me imagining myself at best as a drug addicted felon like Matt Foley living in a van down by the river with no friends, family, job. At worst, I’d lose my family in the eternities.
The fear is real. And some of it is well-founded. I had a difficult time financially and emotionally for several years. Divorce in and of itself can and often does do that to a man. Add coming out and leaving your lifelong religion to the mix and it’s not going to be a cakewalk. But as I tell other men in the same position I was in 10 years ago, don’t divorce thinking you’re transitioning into some dreamlike peace and happiness. Do it if divorce is a reward in and of itself.
I’d offer the same advice for awakening Mormons making a rough decision to leave or to stay. Leaving needs to be a reward in and of itself, regardless of what exciting or terrifying experiences lie ahead. For me, divorcing and leaving Mormonism have indeed been their own rewards. I have had the exciting task of developing my own moral compass and creating a life that reflects my true soul rather than sticking to what some men tell me is “safe” and acceptable.
I’ve chosen to love my fellow man and have rejected doctrine, policies, standards and beliefs that don’t show that love…and it has made all the difference in the world.
Fatherhood has been my crowning achievement in that. In all that has passed, my four kids have always come first. I believe I’m a better father today than I ever would have been working 10+ hours a week out of the home on church callings, unhappily married to their mother and repressing such a fundamental part of my soul. I’ve been fortunate over the years to spend 1 on 1 time with each of my children and I have an unconditionally loving relationship with them, even with the ones who are still gravitating towards the LDS church.
What’s new is that my entire life is patterned after my own hard-fought-for values, rather than the pre-packaged standards and rules created by others. I’m still single. I haven’t replaced Mormonism with a different belief system. I still have good days and bad days. But I’ve experienced deep passionate love, familial love and acceptance, and financial successes that shadow the failures.
Where did I go?
Towards love, authenticity, and a genuine daily life. It has made not pretending worth it.
Are you a recently returned Mormon missionary about to get married knowing deep down in your gut that you are gay?
Don’t do it!
The name of this blog, Dad’s Primal Scream, has never been more appropriate.
To me, a primal scream starts from some deep inner angst while outwardly observing something horrific over which I have no control. The good news is that today it’s not about my kids. It’s about someone else’s child, someone I don’t know personally.
Could this be about you?
I understand what it’s like to not WANT to be gay, to want a celestial marriage, and to want that picture perfect happiness of a faithful LDS family sealed in the temple. And being gay just doesn’t jive with that. It doesn’t fit into that plan.
I understand how growing up in the church one can imagine that you’re only gay if you are doing gay things. And if you’re not actually having gay sex, then you must not be gay. I get how you got into that head space.
The problem is that it’s an oversimplification of human nature. You cannot strong-arm sexual attraction and desire like they want you to believe you can.
How do I know you?
But, I do know you exist, and that you are about to make a grave, powerful mistake.
My ex-wife’s current husband also has four children, teens and young adults. These children are the step-siblings of my somewhat younger children. Rumor has it that one of the step-sisters is about to get married to her fiance who is gay. Well, he was once gay, or once did something slightly gay, or only has a tiny ounce of gay in him at the moment, or he’s been cured.
All I really know is that my kids have heard the whispering of his cured homosexuality and that the marriage is proceeding. My ex-wife who was so greatly hurt in our divorce and my subsequent coming out is standing on the sidelines while her step-daughter makes the same horrible mistake. Well, no, actually worse because the bride knows this time.
Horrified at hearing all this, I asked my daughter why their mother isn’t stepping in to say or do something. She told that her mom didn’t want to be mean and had said,
“If two people love each other and are faithful enough in the gospel then it will all work out!!!”
What’s that saying? “Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.”
The problem in our marriage wasn’t that we didn’t love enough or weren’t faithful enough in the gospel. That simple-minded answer horrifies me and it ignores the truth.
It’s mean to stand idly by and let someone make such a mistake and to not say anything. So, I’m saying something.
I don’t know you. I’ve never seen you or even shaken your hand. I only know you in the 3rd person but I understand you more than you think I do.
DON’T DO IT.
I did something very similar 22 years ago and it was only sustainable for a short period of time, for almost 11 years.
Sure, some people marry and survive just like some people venture over Niagara Falls and survive it, but not without injuring themselves and many people in the process. It leads to a weak quality of life and a deep chronic inner turmoil. According to information from a USU study, “The findings suggest that rejection or compartmentalization of sexual identity may be difficult to sustain over time and likely comes at a significant psychosocial cost.”
Those who paint a rosy picture of such marriages are being dishonest and duplicitous with you. More specifically they are being dismissive of their wives and of your current fiance. If you really truly loved her, you wouldn’t do this to her. And she wouldn’t expect it of you if her friendship and love were true.
I understand the wedding is soon. My ex-wife was out shopping today for a dress for my daughter to wear. It could even be this weekend but I suggest you reconsider NOW. It’s not too late.
I know so many happy, out, gay men who are living lives of integrity and honesty. Many are also returned missionaries. They’re good fathers, loving partners and valuable members of society. They’re successful. You could be that too and there are a lot of us out here ready to welcome you with open arms. You don’t know me but you are welcome to knock on my door anytime and I’ll listen. I’ll introduce you to others and we’ll help you in any way we can.
We know and love you because we were you.
See an UPDATE here
Major breakthrough #2
In the years since, she has exerted her independence and rarely goes to church even when she’s with her mom. In fact we have a nice routine on Sundays that she’s with her mom. She says she has to work and comes to have brunch with me.
The next oldest daughter does what she sees her brother do. He’s on a mission and i anticipate she’ll go one day too.
My youngest (12), on the other hand, is harder to read. She’s talked about going on a mission, about believing it all and so I’ve assumed that that’s her path. But something just happened that gives me hope
I’m taking youngest to see the traveling Broadway version of Sound of Music at tomorrow evening, Sunday, but it’s not my weekend. She wanted me to come get her early so she could hang out with some of her friends who are getting together for lunch. I said I’d ask her mother if she was OK with it. Mom said no because it’s during her church time. This is how I broke the news to my youngest and her reaction!
TWO of my kids might be doubters!!!!
“How can she not realize?”
How did I not realize! I think we’re going to have a fun father-daughter date tomorrow.
Hopefully you laughed at that meme. I did.
I also recognize that at its heart lies a frightening truth. We ALL try to put our best feet forward during the sorting processes of getting to know one another. It takes time to peel off all the protective layers we arm ourselves with and really know someone.
This is nowhere more evident than in negotiations of love. I’ve been in two long-term loving relationships in my life. In both situations, I dove in far earlier and far more quickly than good sense and reason would dictate. In both situations that led to wondrous experiences of love and intimacy, both physically and emotionally. Both situations also ended badly.
In both relationships I think I can fairly summarize that they ended because we didn’t really KNOW fundamental truths about each other and when those truths came to light they were deal-breakers for one or both of us.
Hiding or glossing over our true selves were both the keys that led to the relationships even existing in the first place, but they also flipped the switch to their demise.
So, here I am today 7 years past any long-term relationship and super gun shy. I tell my teenage kids not to plan to marry until they have been dating someone at least a year. Four seasons. I’d hope for even longer but in their Mormon world I know the culture I’m competing with and it’s the mindset of days and weeks. A year in that world is super cautious.
In my world it’s not really much better if I’m really being honest. My recent dating attempts leave me feeling a grumpy old codger void of passion. I’ve certainly taken my turn on the merry-go-round of instant sex and one-off dating. I’m not really interested in that anymore. Looking for something more substantial where I can be myself and fall in love with a real person on the other end continues to elude me. I feel like my resistance or reluctance to immediately jumping in headfirst with both feet like a 15 year old girl keeps me on the fringes.
Take a recent example: I joined a dating site where I’ve heard that a few friends have had some success in finding a partner. I posted my profile and perused those who are designated as compatible with me. I get a few flirty messages and reply in kind. Then, one gentleman writes me the following e-mail. This is his second message to me:
Thank you for writing me and as for me am cool and lonely.i’m new to this online dating thing and you sound nice. More about me I am single never married with no kids and currently seeking for a real relationship, but not rushing myself.I`m 40yrs old an independent contractor by work and i believe fate as made us find each other . I really do not see age or distance as a barrier because i am ready to relocate with that special one if find , And i so much believe that fate as made us find each other because Arizona is actually where i will be moving to soon from California after my contract . I am mentally stable, physically fit,a bunch of laughs,warm, caring,honest, good listening and a positive person. I’ve got a great sense of humor,I am more conservative politically than liberal.I work hard,and know how to have fun. I am real easy person to talk to and a good listener. I love to play golf and I enjoy chilling` with my friend/family ,I like going to the movies,or watching movies in my room ,I like swimming , fishing,listening to music and dance to any kind of music, traveling,going bowling and also a good cook.I am a family oriented person..
I am really interested in wanting to know about what makes you the special person you are today,what are your goals, I want to know more about your family, your background,What do you do for fun,where are you really from ,where do you live , are you an outdoor person and where do you see yourself in the nearest future?I don’t wanna be too inquisitive so i’ll stop here talk to you latter.hope to hear back from you soon..Yours Friend ,Xxxxx
It’s really sweet except that in sentence 3 he already knows that fate brought us together. By sentence 4 he’s already moving here to be with me!
Slow the F#$% down!
Other than that he sounds really sweet, right? Well, there’s also that line about being conservative, but he seems like he wants to get to know me. I just don’t want to have to enter a relationship with a guy already making plans to move in. I have 3 kids to think about and some stranger talking about moving here creeps me out.
Then, I talk to other gay fathers who are in committed relationships about how they met and THEY caught fire almost immediately. In almost every case that I know if they fell for each other speedily and are already engaged.
Part of me thinks, “Been there. Done that.”
Part of me thinks, “Stop it! I did that too and it won’t work out. You’ll be me in 2-3 years.”
Part of me also thinks, “How cool that you found someone to love and who loves you. I hope it lasts.”
I once read a study of how people who found love once are more likely to find it again, and again, and again… I’ve found love before so it might not be completely hopeless. But this 7 year gap does have me wondering.
At a party last night I met a couple who have been together for about 6 years. One of them had previously been in a relationship for 20 years. His partner then died of a heart attack and 3 weeks later he was already with his current husband. That totally fits that model that love more easily finds love.
So, maybe I’m focusing too much on the fact that my previous experiences with love ended and not opening myself up enough to celebrate that I had them and letting the magic that brought them about happen again?
Perhaps, but I can’t get past the fact that speed and reckless abandon both ignite and kill passion.
It’s no surprise to me I am my own worst enemy.
How is life different for today’s young gay Mormons than it was for me 40 years ago?
Today’s LDS Church is not the LDS Church I grew up in. Today’s gay-aware world is certainly not the myopic straight world I grew up in.
In my growing up years, a Mormon did everything possible to distinguish himself from any other form of Christian. After all, Catholic and Protestant Churches were all apostate! Today, the church desperately wants to be thought of as a branch of the very Christianity they used to condescendingly disregard. It’s no wonder that those of us from those days who have left it end up atheists or at least unaffiliated without any specific religion.
As a young man grappling with homosexuality there was no such thing as an out gay Mormon. Gay wasn’t a noun. It was only considered an endurable, sinful verb. Today, there is a small but vocal segment of Mormon allies and even gay Mormons who accept homosexuality as an unchangeable state and yet find the capacity to struggle and contort themselves to stay LDS. I still can’t fathom operating the required mental and emotional gymnastics to accomplish that, but it is undeniably a thing now.
In the past, my LDS Mom and wife took on leadership roles without any real freedom or power to manage objectives and staffing. They were merely operation coordinators. Programs and processes were directives from the males above and local decisions required male approval thus effectively rendering their own decisions mute. I haven’t heard of any substantive changes in this regard but
As a teen, I’d never seen a homosexual portrayed on TV or in the movies. I’d heard that the 70’s sitcom Soap had a gay character, but we weren’t allowed to watch that show. Homosexuality was never discussed in my home or in church. In fact, I didn’t even know what the words “gay” or “homosexual” actually referred to until I was in the 5th or 6th grade. When I did learn what it meant, I suddenly had a name for how I felt and it still felt very “bad”, very foreign and very unfathomable. I just shamefully sensed that I was all that, and that my safety and the cure lied in the church.
Today, a young preteen gay boy or girl has a rich source of gay themed media, gay Mormon blogs, gay ex-Mormon blogs or videos, and just plain gays in the media out and proud, not addicted to drugs and not living in a van down by the river!
Then there’s Mama Dragons.
These women are everything I dreamed my mother would have been. My own mother died before I came out. But had I any idea there were LDS women like Mama Dragons out there when I was a teen, I think I would have felt safe enough to come out earlier and thus prevent a whole slew of pain that later revealed itself on loved ones such as my ex-wife and kids. If you are one of our gay youth or the parent of one, talk to a Mama Dragon (You can e-mail them here: firstname.lastname@example.org). I’ve met a couple of them in person and even as a 50 year old man, my soul is refreshed and I feel love from those women. These are people with a moral compass that elevates everyone they interact with. This is what love is.
There was a movement a few years ago called, “It Gets Better”. I’m here to testify that is IS better. It’s better today even while religious leaders still cling tight to archaic bronze age opinions. The world, American society and some in the LDS fringe community are better today than they were 40 years ago..
You CAN do this, in or out of Mormonism.
“Friend” is an odd word.
During my teaching English as a Second Language days, my students often expressed frustration with American usage of that word.
“You use that word all the time! EVERYONE is a friend. But that means no one really is.”
“It doesn’t appear that Americans have friends. At least not in the way we use the word in my country.”
Of course I have friends. I have several cherished long time friends. I have friends I can not speak to for years and then reconnect with and immediately it feels as if we were never apart. I know a lot of Americans who say that very same thing.
But that example only serves to make my students’ point. The kind of friends they’re talking about are the kind that would never go years without speaking to each other. To them, a “friend” is a person that makes up an integral part of their daily life in their thoughts, emotions and activities. To them a friend is like an appendage; when you leave it behind it causes deep pain. The type of friends they are talking about are the type of friends that would play heavily into a decision to move or not. Mostly not.
I have to admit that I don’t really have those kinds of friends.
Most of my friends have been situational. By that I mean we were thrust into the same location by chance.Our close proximity caused us to reach out to serve a basic human need of belonging and likeness and so we became “friends.” But once the situation was over, we all went our separate ways and the friendship essentially ended except for nostalgic reunions on Facebook and occasional messages of “Congratulations” for a new job or “Happy Birthday.” You know, Christmas card friends.
I do have friends who have stuck their necks out for me in shockingly unselfish ways and for whom I’d give the shirt off my back. I’m so fortunate in that regard. These are the ones who you can look to in a time of need… and who you hope feel the same about you. As special as these friends are, they are not intimately involved in my day-to-day life and that’s what sets them apart from the friends my students described.
I have high school and college “friends” I cherish dearly but I can’t call any of them up right now to go have a drink with me. They don’t live nearby. I have work “friends” I’ve collected at various jobs on my diverse resume, but we only stay in touch on Facebook. I have many international “friends” from my time in Brazil, Japan and while teaching but none of us are planning to meet anytime soon. I have gay friends, ex-Mormon friends and every combination in between but they are more close community members with some things in common.
My mission companions are like that. For 2-4 short months we were paired up and involved in some pretty intense day to day activities with a lot of emotional investment and vulnerability. Like friends, we encouraged one another, laughed a lot and cried some. Then, when a transfer came we hugged and walked away to do it again with someone else. I liked most of my companions and got along swimmingly with each one of them except for the first one. Funny that he’s the only one who has reached out to me on Facebook! The others I’ve interacted little to none with despite my attempts. Two of them were at BYU with me afterwards but showed no interest in getting together. The others are in Brazil somewhere with common names that return hundreds of results on Facebook friend searches.
Whether it be school friends, work colleagues, or travel encounters these situational friendships are a lifeline and something I cherish in my life, but once the situation ends the close friendship wanes. I don’t mean to disparage those relationships in my life at all. Some of them continue thanks to Facebook and telephones, but at a distance. My American tendency for residential mobility means that I’m only in one place long enough to start friendships. I’m rarely in one neighborhood, town, state or even country long enough to follow through with the kind of long-term friendships that my students described and for which I sometimes feel at a loss.
All my intimate relationships have been something I call friendships but even those have deteriorated into something stilted and casual once the partnership ended. The friendship portion was entirely dependent on our intimate pillar to hold it up (which is probably why they didn’t endure).
I just had a career defining event happen to me last week and I while I have lots of “friends” I could share that information with who would cheer and celebrate with me, I don’t have anyone who would come over and bust out in tears of joy with me because they know how hard I’ve worked for it, how much I needed this. THAT’S the kind of friend my students are talking about and the kind of friends I’m missing.
Today is Father’s Day and I’m alone all day. By prior arrangement, my kids are on an international trip with their mother and I likely won’t even get a call today. We celebrated early, but my point is that I don’t have a close enough friend that knows this about me … someone who would know how much it sucks and acknowledge it or try to abate the suckiness of it.
I don’t think I’m alone in this desert of friendship either. I look around and I don’t see the kind of relationships my students described. We Americans are an independent and transient bunch. Our friendships tend to fall victim to other priorities and values. My European students placed their intimate friendships higher on the value chain than we would and had the close lifelong friends to show for it. Some of them would even top family, career, independence and money with their dearest, most intimate friendships.
My only experience with that involved using something like that sort of friendship as a tool (which of course means that it probably really wasn’t that kind of relationship).
At one point in my “trying to be straight” past, I read a lot of reparative therapy and ex-gay material (I also went to some counseling along those lines). The theory was that same-sex attracted (gay) men just needed to find healthy non-sexual bonding friendships with other men and that that would help “cure” them. I tried it and the timing seemed to be perfect because a very hetero friendship was sparked between me and another single guy at church. We did everything together almost every day and even became roommates at one point. I wasn’t attracted to him at all, so the theory was working! It worked so well that I also got close to his sister and ended up marrying her. Today this friend, my former brother-in-law, won’t even speak to me or look me in the eye if family events bring us together in the same room.
Even in my most longing moments, like right now, I’m not sure I’d be able to find that, or even want that friend again. I know especially that I wouldn’t even know how to nurture that in my life. But I’m open to learning.
I’m proud and bewildered to say that I believe my son has that with his friends. He has a closeness with a small circle of friends that I believe will last a lifetime. There’s a flip side to that as well. He’ll probably make life choices that will put those friendships higher on his chain of values than I wish he would. I’m confident that that will keep him Mormon unless one of them leaves. I worry that he’ll make education and career choices based on proximity to these friendships rather than based on his own strengths and ambitions. But then, those kind of sacrifices are exactly what my students were telling me that they’ve made for their friends, the choices that make their friendships stand above what they’ve witnesses on their travels here in America.
Friendship is an odd thing I haven’t quite figured out yet.
Also See Previous Father’s Day posts: