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Dad's Primal Scream

~ Musings of a gay ex-Mormon father

Dad's Primal Scream

Category Archives: Masturbation

To My Son on His 21st Birthday

02 Thursday Aug 2018

Posted by dadsprimalscream in Fatherhood, Manhood, Masturbation, parenting, Sexuality, Shame, Uncategorized

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Tags

Fatherhood, manhood, Sexuality, Shame

(Here’s the letter I wrote to my son in his birthday package. Among other gifts I sent him a book. The link is at the bottom. He’s working a summer job on the other side of the country right now. He’s still LDS and is attending BYU-Idaho this Fall)

Happy Birthday, son!

Since I won’t be taking you out for your first drink at 21, I decided I still needed to get you a gift that says, “I recognize your adulthood and I honor it” in some other way.

I hope you’ll read this explanation thoughtfully before you open what is obviously a book.  You probably don’t want to open it in front of your friends…maybe you do. Just read this first.

I’ve researched and asked around and this book comes highly recommended by at least one well-respected LDS marriage and family therapist. It has been adopted as a textbook in several universities for those who are studying marriage and family therapy like you want to.

It’s about sex.

Now, before you open it, roll your eyes at your crazy dad and throw it into the bottom of your suitcase thinking “it’s not something I need yet,” I hope you’ll at least peruse certain chapters when you have the time alone. It’s not necessarily meant to be read cover to cover in one sitting but to be kept as a resource. It uses frank language. It doesn’t shy away from any topics, and you certainly don’t need to be afraid or shy about reading it now that you are an adult man.

In spite of the rather provocative cover and the title, it’s not pornographic, nor is it meant to encourage you to do anything you’re uncomfortable with at this point in time. But as a man, one day your body and sex with a loving partner is going to be a major part of your life. You should be comfortable talking about it and learning about it. I promise you that you don’t already know everything in this book.

It’s funny because there’s a weird paradox that happens with sex. The more you fear it or think it can’t be discussed openly and honestly or that it’s shameful or sinful the more obsessed with it you become. I’ve never seen any group of more sex-obsessed people than my fellow students at BYU. Even in marriage, the more hush-hush and the more “no” that happens in the bedroom the more it will overpower you. Repression breeds obsession.

But when you respect the significant place it does and SHOULD hold in your own life and in your partnership, the more it will comfortably couch itself softly in the background of your life and allow you to live a content, happy, fun and energetic life. I want that for you.

In other words, it’s not everything, but without it everything seems out of whack.

Sex is a gift. Once you start having it regularly with someone you love, a switch will turn on and it will become an enormously important part of your life. Regardless of what you are doing or not doing right now, your body is shouting at you to turn that switch on. And when you do it is amazingly wonderful!

Many people live in frustration because they are afraid of their own bodies or misunderstand them. Or, they misunderstand the bodies of their partner. That’s a cocktail for an unhappy relationship, an unhappy marriage and a mediocre existence. I don’t want you in any way to miss out on the beauty, the fun, the intensity and the intimacy of sex throughout your adult life. You were created with sex to be an integral part of who you are as a man.

Any parent/child relationship gets weird when discussing sex, I respect that. I’m not giving this to you because I’m afraid or shying away from talking to you about these things myself. I’m always willing to talk. I’m hoping that you’ll come to me for opinions or advice at any time. But whether it’s because I’m gay, or because I’m no longer LDS I feel like you think I might not understand, or that I am so bad at it that I couldn’t make it work. LOL

Parenting advice always says you should answer a kid’s sex questions, but not give them more than they are asking for. I think I’ve done that but I may have left out some important talks about sex because I feel like there’s more to say than I’ve said. There’s more to say than you’ve thought about asking. Even if sex is only conceptual at this point for you, you are an adult man and there are things you should know now and not wait only until weeks or days before you get married. School, church, church leaders, the internet or just talking among your friends isn’t good enough. Getting advice from people who have their own awkward relationship to sex isn’t helpful either, which is why I wanted to give you something more.

So, that’s why I’m giving you this book in celebration of the absolute privilege that was mine 21 years and 9 months ago to do my part in creating you. It was fun. It was beautiful. It most certainly has been the foundation for a thrilling roller-coaster of a ride in life in being your dad. And it all started with sex.

I love you!

Daddio

 

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The Masturbation Talk for Mormon Boys and Girls

12 Thursday Jun 2014

Posted by dadsprimalscream in Masturbation, Mormonism

≈ 30 Comments

Tags

Human sexual activity, Masturbation, Mormonism

I’ve decided to republish my all time top 5 most visited posts. Here’s #3…

_______________________

Who would have thunk it?… One of the most common searches that brings people to my blog is some variation on the words “masturbation” and “mormons.”  Seriously.  It happens almost every day and it is totally unintentional on my part. But I think I know why my blog ends up in those search results.

There’s a page under my “Rants” in the menu above that discusses masturbation from the perspective of an LDS physician.  I found it on some former Mormon forum a long time ago and have long since lost the reference to give the credit due.  I don’t even know for sure if it’s legit or just made up.  It sounds legit though.

I expect that if the following discussion offends or makes folks uncomfortable they wouldn’t have clicked here or made it this far into the post, right? So, I’m not going to tiptoe around the topic…but this won’t be a vulgar description or anything like that, just a point of view.

Since I get so many visitors looking for this, I thought it was time that I add my own two cents on the topic… you’ve got to give the people what they want! And maybe I’ll get more traffic here as a result.

I believe that the current LDS teaching on masturbation is a violation of an individual’s personal boundaries.  The LDS position is not scriptural and it’s not moral.  It’s damaging to the  young LDS boys and young LDS girls on whom the non-doctrinal teaching is imposed. It is abusive.

As a Boy

I was taught  about masturbation by my Mormon bishop at the age of 11.  He was interviewing me in his home office just prior to my 12th birthday to make sure that I was “worthy” to be ordained as a deacon in the church.  Up to that point I’d never heard the word before and I’d never done it.  So, when the bishop asked me if I masturbated and I replied that I didn’t know what that was, a VERY uncomfortable conversation ensued.

The bishop in essence taught me how to masturbate; that wasn’t his intention but that was the outcome.

At the time I was completely  at the mercy of this HUGE authority figure in my life.  Of course I didn’t question the appropriateness of this conversation because this was the Lord’s representative and could do no wrong.  And within the context of Mormonism it was an entirely appropriate event.

That’s messed up.

As a father I find it completely inappropriate for an older man to even be asking a 12 year old boy about masturbation.  Period. The Mormon church seems to be begging for a lawsuit by keeping this practice in place.

As a Dad

25 years later and my little girl, a toddler, was really enjoying her child car seat.  That strap with the latch that goes between her legs was getting a lot of attention while the family drove around town.  This really irritated my ex-wife.  She freaked out every time she saw it.  I was still a true blue believer at this point but I tried to get my ex-wife to calm down and stop bugging our little girl about it.  Finally our pediatrician came to our rescue and told my wife that toddler masturbation was completely normal and that her freaking out about it was going to cause more damage than the act itself.

The overreacting stopped…in front of me at least. Funny thing is, though, the masturbating in the car also stopped soon after.  I don’t know if it was a naturally tapering off, or if my ex-wife somehow managed to get my daughter to stop it covertly.  I’m guessing the latter.

Clarification

I don’t know if we need a definition here, but I’m assuming that we can all agree what masturbation is…or can we? Is the line really that clear? A Mormon female I was once close to  told me that a certain exercise routine would “accidentally” induce orgasm for her as a teen. Well then, if you repeat that very same exercise technique… and know that the pleasure is going to follow, that’s masturbation, right? (And then I’d also assume that you’d be more understanding of your own children when similar events occur years later, ahem.)

For a boy that sort of hands-off approach doesn’t work as well, but I know from experience that a young 14, 15, 16 year old boy doesn’t need a whole lot  manual help to make it happen either.  Just washing in the shower, for example can get results.  But that only highlights how normal and natural it is.

Morality

In the Mormon world “morality” refers almost exclusively to sex. If you follow the LDS code for sexual behavior then you are living a “moral” life.  My definition of morality is more comprehensive. In brief, my moral compass guides me to evaluate my life situations based on respect and “doing no harm to others”, or the old “treat others the way you want to be treated.” In no way does masturbation do harm to yourself or to anyone else.  To the contrary, obsessing over it the way the Mormon religion does brings it to the forefront of  a young person’s life and creates a guilt and a compulsion that is harmful and immoral.

My Plea

If you are a young boy or girl reading this post, or perhaps you are a young adult preoccupied with “sinful” thoughts that do or could lead to masturbation, or maybe you are just a concerned LDS parent trying to help your “addicted” child, please know that the LDS church is wrong on this one issue.

My father once related to me  the adage, “95% of boys masturbate… and the other 5% are liars.” Unfortunately it was a dozen years too late to help me much.  I actually managed to not masturbate from my 2 year LDS mission and all the way through my 10 year marriage. With a couple of slip ups in between, which I felt incredibly guilty and worthless about, I spent an unnecessary enormous amounts of energy on the Mormon obsession over masturbation. I’m no longer proud of abstaining.  It’s like patting yourself of the back for a long run of not brushing your teeth.

Like anything, too much of a good thing can become obsessive. So, if it interferes with the person’s ability to have intimate relationships,  function productively in life, or if there are inappropriate times and places where it occurs then it can become an immoral behavior because of how it affects others.  But in and of itself there is nothing immoral or wrong about it. And those negative outcomes are anomalies of the behavior not givens or consequences.

There is an appropriate time (when alone), there is an appropriate place (in private) and the benefits for men and for women far outweigh any possible negative affects.

Trying to NOT do something  normal and natural creates an obsession that is unhealthy. Mormons think about masturbation far more than the rest of the world who just do it and get on with their lives.

UPDATE: Re-Thinking Porn; The Internet Factor

Update: Here’s another article that confirms my suspicions and another HERE

The little known benefits of masturbation

Other things I’ve posted on the topic:

Sexual Unhappiness is a Religiously Transmitted Disease

Porn for Mormons

LDS Physician – Masturbation

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Porn for Mormons

08 Sunday Jun 2014

Posted by dadsprimalscream in Guilt, Masturbation, Porn, Shame

≈ 8 Comments

Tags

Masturbation, Mormon, Pornography, Pornography addiction, Sexuality

 

I’ve decided to republish my all time top 5 most visited posts. Here’s #4…

_______________________

Due to the fact that I get a lot of traffic for my masturbation post and page for Mormons, I’ve decided to enhance my commentary offerings to include porn.

You’re welcome.

I’m guessing that the combination of searches for “porn” and “Mormons” will double my daily site visits.  I’ll let you know.

Most people today consider porn and masturbation to be mutually inclusive.  They’re not.

They each can “occur” without the other. And while I’d assume that their histories are very closely related, I’d guess that porn is a relatively recent phenomenon in human history.  Other animals masturbate, but I don’t know that porn exists in the natural world.

Masturbation is a natural behavior and porn is an artificial cross-sell. While I don’t categorically agree with the hysterical cries that all porn is evil, you may be surprised that I don’t see it all as harmless either.  I tend to agree with Bill Maher of all people who recently commented on it saying that porn had become a lazy person’s replacement for real intimacy. The truth is that overindulgence in porn does seem to reduce sexual satisfaction. So, it is more of  a foolish time-consumer, rather than a morally harmful activity.

Porn should be plan B, not plan A.

The catch is that human behavior dictates that the more you try to control, restrict or prevent a human pleasure the more people will be drawn to it.

Society is obsessed with controlling porn, Mormons especially so.

Bubbling

There’s a whole Mormon web site dedicated to combating porn. For good reason? A 2009 study indicated that Utah spends more on adult online entertainment than any other state. Mormons have even developed a porn substitute called Bubbling.

Is that good or bad?

I’m actually not sure it’s clear if Mormons are inherently more prurient, but I’d wager that it’s the Mormons’ obsession with the issue of porn itself that causes all their people to be drawn to it in the first place. Therefore, the web site, the pamphlets and the talks are just contributing to the activity.

The more shameful and clandestine any society makes a behavior, the more popular it will be. There is honest debate whether attraction to porn has any harmful effects or that anything called “porn addiction” really exists.

It doesn’t according to the APA.

I’d venture to say that a “combat porn” web site or a counseling group will never assist a single person to permanently avoid porn. Human beings rarely avoid doing pleasurable things by thinking about NOT doing them.  All that sort of approach does is make you think about the target behavior MORE thus creating an unhealthy shame/obsession cycle. For example:

  • People don’t become healthy by reading/thinking/talking about NOT eating cake or NOT ordering a pizza.
  • People don’t control their alcohol consumption by reading/thinking/talking about NOT drinking alcohol and NOT entering bars.
  • People don’t become compassionate by reading/thinking/talking about NOT becoming angry.

Like porn  sweets, carbs, alcohol and anger are not evil in and of themselves.  They become foolish and destructive behaviors by the time, place and amount in which they are indulged. Not by their mere presence in someone’s life. Teach an individual to focus on the positive sides of the coin such as healthy food, exercise, moderation, social skills and compassion and the so-called negative behaviors will usually take care of themselves.

The occasional candy bar, chips and dip, beer,  angry outburst and wank to an xtube video becomes irrelevant when a person’s life and habits are focused on the positive. And just like alcohol or driving a car, porn should be kept from children until they are at a mature age to be able to moderate their behavior.

Porn, like its father and partner masturbation, is best practiced in private, when alone or with fully consenting adults and when no other reasonable opportunity for real intimacy exists.  In other words, it’s the exception; it’s the treat that provides no real nourishment or long-lasting rewards, but it feels good at the moment and it’s part of life.

Ideas for Family Home Evening Discussions

Take the hysteria down a notch.  If you have been told you are addicted to porn or if you are concerned for a loved one, take an honest self evaluation.

This photo did more for me at 16 than any porn magazine could

  • What exactly is porn?
  • Do you view porn only alone or with a willing partner?
  • Is it just filling in the gaps when there would be no sexual intimacy or is it taking the place of actual sexual intimacy?
  • Has it become preferable to actual intercourse?
  • Which happens more? Viewing porn or real intimacy with a partner?
  • Have you ever lost sleep, work or social opportunities due to your viewing of porn?

If it has become too pervasive in that it negatively impacts intimate relationships, perhaps it is time to  consider positive activities for your time and relationship.

Or, on the other hand if you are a loved one or partner whose main concern is that it’s a “sin” or “immoral” perhaps you need to consider how your own obsession with porn is actually contributing to the behavior you view as a negative.  The truth is that you can’t push anyone to lose weight, control their own alcohol consumption or limit their own viewing of porn. They have to do it all on their own.

I know for myself that the mere acceptance of interest in porn has greatly reduced my desire to participate in it. It’s counter-intuitive but true. If I’m sick, traveling, tired, have a headache or if I just don’t feel like being intimate I couldn’t care less if my partner masturbates and views porn.  Why do you?

On the other hand, if I’m ready and willing and my partner is more interested in the computer and his right hand – that’s a problem.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Re-Thinking Porn; The Internet Factor

Update: Here’s another article that confirms my suspicions and another HERE

Other things I’ve posted on the topic:

Sexual Unhappiness is a Religiously Transmitted Disease

LDS Physician – Masturbation

The Masturbation Talk for Mormon Boys and Girls

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Sexual Unhappiness is a Religiously Transmitted Disease

14 Thursday Jul 2011

Posted by dadsprimalscream in Atheism, Belief, Guilt, Marriage, Masturbation, Mormonism, Porn, Religion, Shame

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

Guilt, Homosexuality, Human sexuality, Masturbation, Pornography, Religion, Sexuality

I was right!

Well, let me rephrase that…

What I suspected regarding sex, porn and masturbation (and previously posted here, here and here) has been confirmed in several respects by a recent study by Dr. Darrel W. Ray, director of The Institute for Performance Culture. Of course, nothing is ever conclusive in science and there will need to be much more research done to further understand the nuances in the study but here are their key findings:

Key findings:
1. Sex improves dramatically after leaving religion.
2. Sexual guilt has little staying power after leaving religion.
3. Those raised most religious show no difference from those raised least religious in their sexual behavior.
4. Those raised most religious experience far more guilt but have just as much sex.
5. Religious parents are far worse at educating their children on matters of sex.
6. Religious guilt differs in measurable amounts according to denomination.

Mormonism produces the most sex related guilt than any other religion.  Former Mormons ranked 8.19 on a scale of 1-10.  Here is the question they were asked:

“How would you rate what you were taught: How guilty you felt about sex and its implications on yourself?”

When you apply that to the key findings, you realize that Mormons don’t behave any differently than anyone else when it comes to sexuality. They just feel worse about it.

As a Mormon I always believed that people who leave the church are forever wracked with guilt  and unhappiness, but are just never able to muster the  courage and discipline required to live as good of a life as the Mormons.  How ironic that the opposite is true. Those left behind are most likely wallowing in guilt and unhappiness with something so key to their nature, sexuality. I know the study doesn’t exactly say this.  It implies it and I have only my experience to go by.

The researcher is pretty good at admitting weaknesses and areas that need further study, but if I try putting on my Mormon glasses (they are rose-colored) and try to imagine the rationale I’d come up with to refute these claims, here’s what I’d probably say to myself:

Dadsprimalscream, these people are “former Mormons” and atheists who participated in this study.  They obviously never really had a testimony of the “fulness of the gospel” like I do and so these people are not like me or my Bishop or my Relief Society who are enduring to the end in righteousness and truth. People who leave the church are obviously the wicked and people who couldn’t hack it, so that’s why their behavior turns out to be exactly like that in the secular world. Those who follow the standards of the church don’t feel guilty and therefore they never leave it. Furthermore, he study was completed by atheists so they are clearly biased.

Except that… Those who leave religion, like myself, DID try it while they were in it and it didn’t work. Mormons follow the same pattern as other restrictive religions.  There doesn’t appear to be anything “special” about it other than being better at guilt. And those who leave religion end up similar to folks who never had a religion. Guilt is conditional… on religion, not on behavior.

Also, the people who leave religion to seem to be the ones who tried hardest and who have invested those most time into soul-searching.

There are themes of intense searching, bible reading, efforts to conform and find the promises of their religion, only to fail time and again. Ironically, the intense searching, bible reading and attempts to understand led many to recognize there were many things they were not being told and much was hidden or poorly explained.

There’s a lot I want to say on this topic, but instead I am just going to paste below some quotes from the study and let others comment and draw their own conclusions.

  • The more sexually restrictive a religion is the more it uses guilt.
  • Conservative religions teach guilt and proscribe many behaviors such as sex before marriage, masturbation, oral sex and sex outside of marriage, and use religious based approaches to sex education with emphasis on abstinence only, failing to teach about birth control, condom use and abortion.
  • Biology seems to trump religion despite the millions of dollars and hours devoted to teaching religious children how to behave within their
    religious restrictions.  Other general studies of sexuality show that 95% all adults have had premarital sex by the time they marry including, we believe, most ministers who tout abstinence only.
  • The religious kids were learning from sexual experience more than the less religious!
  • Most religions preach incessantly against pornography, yet it is the religious
    children in this sample that used it more.
  • It appears that the things religions preach against most – sexual experimentation, pornography and the internet – are what religious kids may use the most, while failing to talk to their parents.
  • Non-religious kids seem to be following the religious proscriptions better than the religious ones.
  • For the most religious, getting religion out of their lives seemed to make a huge difference in their sex life.
  • Those from the most guilt based religions would show the greatest drop in guilt and biggest increase in sexual satisfaction.
  • If porn is as bad as religions say it is, they aren’t doing a very good job of keeping it out of the hands of children and adolescents, 20% or more of both groups said they were using porn by 12 years old. For all the billboards and sermons against porn, there seems to be little return on the investment.
  • We were most interested in religion’s effect on porn use. If religion’s
    proscriptions are effective, we should see a clear difference between those who are most and least religious in the teen years when they are getting strong messages from their religion about sex. Looking only at men, we can see that there is very little difference between the groups. This suggests that the effect of religion is negligible for men.

  • The moral of this story, if you want a good sex life, don’t get involved with a highly religious person. Many in our sample seem to have taken that path. Of those that do have highly religious spouses, the majority have sexual problems in the relationship.
  • The main benefit that people express is the ability to just enjoy sex without guilt.
    Over and over people said, they are much happier and fulfilled not only in their sex life, but in the rest of their life as well since leaving religion.
  • Guilt messages have remarkably little measurable effect on actual behavior. As in other surveys, our results show that religion has a slight effect in delaying the onset of sexual activity.
  • Religious parents are perceived to be poorer at sex education compared to less religious parents, though neither are particularly good at it.
  • Religion simply ignores biology and creates psychological states that interfere
    with appropriate sexual expression and development. Teaching guilt and shame around things that are perfectly natural. Religion impacts how people see their bodies and express their sexuality whether gay, lesbian or straight. Religions have nothing to say about our biology. They are in large measure clueless about hormones, brain development, attraction factors, body image formation and many other things.
  • If parents and schools spent as much time teaching kids about safe and enjoyable sex as they do teaching about safe driving, there would be fewer
    unwanted pregnancies, less disease, fewer abortions and far less guilt and shame that lead people to make poor decisions about partners and behavior.
  • Eliminate guilt and shame around sex, and religions have very little to work with.
  • Religions cannot claim that their ideas and principles actually impact
    behavior or make people happier.
  • We can also see that religion creates guilt and shame around the most basic sexual act, masturbation, but has no effect on its practice.
  • Condemning children for masturbating, telling them they will go to hell or suffer in this life for doing it, is child abuse pure and simple.
  • Religion uses sex for purposes of propagation not the happiness of its adherents.
  • There is ample evidence in this survey, that one of the best things one can do to
    improve your sex life is leave religion, especially if you were in a conservative religion.
  • We have seen that stigmas, shame and guilt do not work in preventing or stopping behavior, but they do make people feel sexually miserable.
  • 95% of Americans have sex before marriage. Your minister probably had sex before marriage but he tells you not to. Protect yourself, use a condom.
  • Adolescents and young adults are in a critical time trying to
    establish their sexual identity. Religion intentionally plays upon the doubts and fears of youth to infect them with medieval ideas of sexuality.

Update: Here’s another article that confirms my suspicions and another HERE

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